Thursday, June 17, 2010

Spot the difference

What's the difference between this image from 2001 (here's a relevant article)



and this one from today's Hindu?


Answer: the position of the Indian soldiers.

Question: The 2001 photo caused tremendous outrage in India. Will the 2010 photo create a similar storm of protest?

I'm not hopeful.

16 comments:

jatkesha said...

Both of them are cruel and depressing.

No one knows if they are Maoists or if they are suspected to be Maoists. It is left to anyone's guess how authentic these encounters are. The only way to deal with this Maoist problem is to bring about development. But then, development isn't Union-carbide Protection Agency's (UPA) forte.

Jai_C said...

1. Pic1. IIRC the soldiers were killed deep in BD at the end of a stupid and ill-advised "revenge raid"; the exact means of transporting a dead body did not matter to me as much as the process of creating it -while it was entirely legitimate for bangladeshis to kill them in combat in BD, I think they were subjected to sustained torture and that drove the outrage.

2. Pic2. I believe the reports that state the maoists were killed in an encounter, and they have repeatedly said they would die even by suicide than be caught alive by our forces. I have no problems with either the creation of that body or with the means used to transport it.

regards,
Jai

Anonymous said...

Looks like only dead body of terrorist cause outrage. Where were you last month when these terrorist were on mass killing mode?

Rahul Siddharthan said...

Ah, yes, she was a terrorist. Too bad she's dead and can't speak. They did capture one person alive (the first photo in the Hindu article) who won't speak either, because he can't. This "dreaded Maoist" is a mute and mentally challenged youth. If they had killed him, no doubt he'd have deserved to die, too.

By the way, there is no evidence that the train tragedy was caused by Maoists, either. The Maoists have indeed committed plenty of atrocities, but so have the police and army, with the support of the government and the media.

Anonymous said...

Yeah may be ppl from outer space did. Did you expected that they will come to you and confess that they did it? Will You know some ppl can never be convinced that 9/11 was not done by Jews and USA. Same way nothing will convince known left wingers from sites like kafila.
By the way, you did not answer criticism of first commentator that "Where were you last month when these terrorist were on mass killing mode?" Even
accepting your silly argument that
terrorist did not do train blast, does not answer that question.
They did accept killing 72 CRPF
personal in their typical inhuman ways (which is understandable for ppl who respect Mao). Why did not you bother about human right of those brave souls who died protecting our nation?

Jai_C said...

Rahul,

If anything the train sabotage makes it *worse* not better. PCAPA were the kind-of overground elements who had deep embedded links with more militant Maoists.

I submit that differentiating between them is harder than distinguishing between the JuD and the LeT; because JuD is ostensibly about charity while PCAPA had no qualms with violence.

I'm aware there was a desperate search on to create a subgroup to pin the train smash on - CNN IBN anchors were saying "rogue elements within Maoists" within hours of the incident ...its usually never rogue elements within CRPF/ BSF when the shoe is on the other foot :-)

During and after the Lalgarh siege, PCAPA were met and negotiated with by various intellectuals from the left.

So if the "more acceptable"/ public wings of the hydra got upto this, one can imagine where the more militant guys can go.

thanks,
Jai

Ravi S Ghosh said...

I was thinking to post the photos as I saw them on news paper. U've stolen my thoughts :P

Rahul Siddharthan said...

anonymous: Ah, the "where's your outrage?" argument. Suffice it to say that I hold the Indian Government (and democratic governments in general) to a higher standard than random criminals.

Jai_C:
If anything the train sabotage makes it *worse* not better.

I don't understand you. And, as far as I have seen, atrocities committed by the CRPF, BSF etc usually are blamed on individuals ("rogue elements") there and not on the institutions as a whole.

Jai_C said...

Rahul,

Dont want to drag this out so this will be my last comment:

1. I was comparing to the LeT vs JuD which at least maintains its a charity organization- whereas PCAPA is okay with significant violence as long as its labeled "resistance" or can point out some kind of "he hit first" logic. The links between PCAPA and Maoists are deep.

2. I *havent* watched a news report on TV that after covering some atrocity by our forces did *not* go into a long session of criticism of the entire force and its standards/ procedures/ discipline. Much of it *is required* - the forces are not to be held at the same standard as the maoists.

But what troubled me on the Gyan Exp report there was how quickly the same guys were going "oh rogue elements within the maoists must have done this".

3. To sign off on a tangential analogy:

- People who tracked responsibility for Bhopal straight up to Warren Anderson

- are often the same people who hesitate to place responsibility for Gyaneshwari Exp anywhere beyond the men who removed the prandols and their immediate field commander.

(this is like the same guys saying the line employee and supervisor at the plant were at fault and the execs... hmmm.. errr.... haaww)

I wish they'd pick one line and be consistent with it. This kind of *bugs* me. It bothered me about the CNN IBN report too.

thanks,
Jai

Anonymous said...

Intersting to know that
"I hold the Indian Government (and democratic governments in general) to a higher standard than random criminals."
If you admit that maoists and to that matter any communist radical are nothing but bunch of thug and criminal, I agree with you.
However your earlier comment sounds nothing more than typical Arundhati Roy style shameless apology for terrorists.

"By the way, there is no evidence that the train tragedy was caused by Maoists, either. The Maoists have indeed committed plenty of atrocities, but so have the police and army, with the support of the government and the media."

Even maoists are not saying that Bapi Mahto is not their man. All they are saying is that he is rogue.

Anonymous said...

Rahul,

Your statement,

By the way, there is no evidence that the train tragedy was caused by Maoists, either. The Maoists have indeed committed plenty of atrocities, but so have the police and army, with the support of the government and the media.

reeks sanctimony. You also showed yourself to be intolerant when you spiked my comment questioning why you ignore the 1989 Kashmiri Pandit Pogrom and highlight 1984 and 2002. There's plenty of "evidence" that the police and army commit atrocities with the support of the media? Do you even read what you write Rahul? How many reports of inquiry commissions are you talking of? Killing a person who takes up arms against the state is not an atrocity. Killing someone who is bent upon exterminating an entire community or men in uniform is not an atrocity.

Rahul Siddharthan said...

anonymous - I did not spike any comment. So that mute, mentally challenged youth in the photo was "bent upon exterminating an entire community"? What about the victims at Chittisinghpura? The rape/murder victims at Shopian? The police are unable even to convince our own courts: while Kasab was sentenced to death, the two Indian co-accused were acquitted. Any number of people are picked up in the same manner as those co-accused, and never face trial.

I think what you are saying is that ALL Muslims, tribals, adivasis, northeasterners, are to be treated as having "taken up arms against the Indian state", and therefore any measures against them are justified. But you are too gutless to actually say that, because you know how it would sound, even in your anonymous cowardice.

Anant said...

Rahul: compliments on the last paragraph of your preceding comment.

Anonymous said...

Yes! Congrats to both of you. Meanwhile there was a person from
UK who was burnt alive by innocent Muslims and aadivasi's according to you.
http://telegraphindia.com/1100626/jsp/bengal/story_12612676.jsp
I am sure this will not anger you as keep Indian govt to higher standard and do not care about criminals.

Anonymous said...

I think what you are saying is that ALL Muslims, tribals, adivasis, northeasterners, are to be treated as having "taken up arms against the Indian state", and therefore any measures against them are justified. But you are too gutless to actually say that, because you know how it would sound, even in your anonymous cowardice.

Chattisinghpora was a Pakistan supported act, and if you think otherwise you might be the sort who thinks 9/11 was an inside job. As for the two defendants who were acquitted by the Bombay courts, if it means that the police were biased we should also conclude that O.J. Simpson did not kill his ex-wife and her partner. The LAPD was simply trying to make up for the ignominy it suffered over the Rodney King incident. I should not be telling you this, but in the case of a criminal trial, the burden of proof is upon the prosecution. That by no means implies that in case the defendant is acquitted the prosecution acted out of spite. Yes there are cases where the acquitted defendant can plead for appeals to be quashed by establishing at least by preponderance of evidence. This is nothing profound. A very well read man such as yourself should know better.

The mute mentally challenged youth isn't bent upon exterminating an entire community (that is the Kashmiri terrorist thugs who are determined to wipe out Hinduism from the Valley after having cleansed it of Hindus, or the Naga and Tripura Christian terrorists who are determined to wipe out Hindus from the their respective territories). The convict we see is determined to wipe out entire companies of men in uniform and train loads of people as with the Janeshwari Express atrocity. I am most cetainly not saying that ALL XYZ should be wiped out. Far from it. It is your Arundati Roy inspired talking points that is saying that. It is so laughable I shall not dignify your smear with a reply.

I am saying that regardless of who it is, regardless of religion or political persuasion, any one taking arms against the state must be dealt with ruthlessly. No exceptions. VHP/BD/MNS/SS thugs, the Jihadophiles, NE terrorists, Maoist scum, Khaap Panchayat thugs, whoever it maybe. Extreme force should be used to ensure only peaceful means of mobilisation and protest - that too ones that do not inconvenience the public should be permitted. Take the US for instance, although the Xtian Right runs the country and is trying its darned best ot make abortion illegal, killers of Abortion Providers have been awarded capital punishment.

Vilence against the state is not a sign of discontent but a sign of the weakness and inability of state institutions to maintain order. Terrorism can be defeated only using violence inflicted by the state. Punjab, Sri Lanka (where India support in cutting off LTTE's seaborne supply route ensured LTTE's extinction) the case of Veerappan etc., are all examples of rebellion being crushed through superior force. In the case of the Maoists, the state should raise the cost of collaboration to unacceptably high levels by targeting quislings and fifth columnists like Balagopal/Varavara Rao, (which one is dead?) Kannabiran, Roy, Binayak Sen etc. Other genuine intellectuals (who disagree with me, rationally though) have suggested that the Adivasis who are mere cats paws be granted amnesty, while the state goes after the leaders of the movement and wipes them out as was successfully done in AP. We should have no illusions about these things. Long term economic development requires law and order in every nook and corner of the land. We can't expect the state to put down communal riots and khaap panchayats with extreme prejudice if it ignores the depredations of Maoist thugs.

ReadnRyte said...

Hehehe.

I like the argument of the Anon character (man/woman/something that crawled out from under a rock). Comparing something as trivial as O J Simpson's case with something that holds much more significance to a lot more people.

A group of people who are trying to hold on to their piece of land so that they can continue with their way of life are being asked to fucking move out to make way for Vedanta and other mining companies, which is nothing but pure land grab by big businesses who are in incestous relationships with the UPA govt (or any political entity). When there is no help from 'the govt'...there will be a revolution and there will be violence.

Like Arundhati Roy wrote, if you are so hell bent on selling the land to these big business, at least make some money out of it. NO way, one can't charge these poor mining companies more than they can give...they are part of the 'India Shining development campaign'. So here's what we can do...we will drive out the tribals and the adivasis, after all who gives a fuck about them.

Oh ya...another thing the anon (it??) touched upon is Hindu's being extreminated everywhere. That at least holds to reason...fuck Malegaon..fuck the bombs triggered by fanatical Hindu organizations, they were in self defense.