tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3112258799568696095.post3176777719623863646..comments2024-03-06T13:50:29.718+05:30Comments on E's flat, ah's flat too: Is the US still behind the curve?Rahul Siddharthanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04809667965184094636noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3112258799568696095.post-13153346172566744802008-11-09T11:14:00.000+05:302008-11-09T11:14:00.000+05:30rt:i agree - the interior midwest can be very raci...rt:<BR/>i agree - the interior midwest can be very racist. after all, we say that obama won a huge mandate, and indeed he did, but let's not forget that 50 million people voted against him.Tabula Rasahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16358094860426062297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3112258799568696095.post-8973899924071320142008-11-09T00:42:00.000+05:302008-11-09T00:42:00.000+05:30Sorry for delayed reply. TR, that's encouraging. ...Sorry for delayed reply. TR, that's encouraging. I'm sure the increased political representation of backward classes/castes in India has led to <I>some</I> increased self-respect for those communities; also, people care less about that in the cities and caste differences aren't so visually obvious. The fact that Obama won states that banned interracial marriages until 40 years ago (and only because the SCOTUS struck it down) is remarkable. <BR/><BR/>Gaddeswarup - what you say about how we treat the "less privileged" is spot-on. I remember reading a guide to Tamil speaking that gave details on how you address your superiors, your family members, your equals, your friends, and finally your servants. If I am behind one of the cleaning staff entering a door and they notice, they step back for me. If it's a spring-door and I hold it open for them, they look extremely uncomfortable and refuse to enter. The idea that you can treat your economic "inferiors" with respect is completely alien to this place. <BR/><BR/>As for women, the labour-class women are not physically weak -- they cannot afford to be -- and they need to be mentally strong to cope with alcoholic husbands, feeding the family, and working to earn enough to get by. So in a way I'm not surprised that they are going into politics at all levels.<BR/><BR/>Anyway that's a long digression and I did not actually desire a discussion, I was just letting off steam at Sainath (whose writings I sometimes like).<BR/><BR/>rt - I suppose it depends on whom you talk to. Universities are notoriously liberal places. But what I found striking was Obama beating McCain 66% to 33% (or something like that) for the under-30 vote. That suggests the Republicans have a lot to worry about.Rahul Siddharthanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04809667965184094636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3112258799568696095.post-38983356707823919942008-11-08T23:47:00.000+05:302008-11-08T23:47:00.000+05:30TR, that's an interesting observation. I've come a...TR, that's an interesting observation. I've come across the opposite, in a way. There are white Americans who are very apprehensive because of the pro-African/black religious beliefs espoused by Obama's church. I'm not sure what kind of policy decisions they're expecting from him, that would be influenced by his church.<BR/><BR/>Considering the 'ugliness' that came out during the McCain/Palin rallies and the kind of fear that some seem to express, it's indeed remarkable that Obama was able to win such a big mandate. <BR/><BR/>I also agree on the part that there is not going to be a dramatic policy difference. However, some of the staunch republicans are acting as if Marx has taken a re-birth around here. <BR/><BR/>- rtAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3112258799568696095.post-52784410214300411182008-11-08T03:17:00.000+05:302008-11-08T03:17:00.000+05:30RS,Sorry that I did not really try to answer the q...RS,<BR/>Sorry that I did not really try to answer the questions that you raised. Much more thoughtful people than me made a lifetime study of these questions and as far as I can see there are no clear answers. Moreover comparing countries like USA and India is difficult. Here are brief impressions from my experiences. I have been visiting USA since 69. At that time the bright African- American students that I noticed mostly came from West Indies or Africa, possibly from privileged communities in Africa. That seems to changed now. Also at that time most of indians abroad I noticed came from dominant castes but now I notice many from less dominant castes areas and more muslims. However social contacts among Indians abroad still seem to be along group lines (as soon as there are a szeable number). <BR/>When I go back home, I find that most of the people I meet in my area *which is rural)are still from my caste. In cities or outside A.P. it is different and sometimes I do not know their castes. Many of the connections are through relatives, marriage etc. Here or USA I do not know many outside the Indian community except through profession. But as soon as I go to A.P. I immediately get links and news of people of my caste feom villages to cities, from film producers to wriers, to those in USA, UK, and Europe. These caste networks still seem to be strong. When I was growing up, I did not feel much presence of Hinduism discussions. They seem much more now.<BR/>There is story about Gandhi's march during salt satyagraha. Apparently along the route many from the nearby villages came to particpate and when some of them went back, they took ritual baths. It is not clear to me how much his influence lasted or what his influence was during his time. Vinay Lal recomments 'Gandhi as Mahatma'by Shahid Amin to guage Gandhi effect in different groups during his time.<BR/>Around 1995, I went to visit my sick father and stayed in a hotel in Guntur near the hospital for a month. When I was coming back, the workers in the hotel came to my room and said it was such a pleasure to see somebody teating them well and that they were subject to daily abuse from patrons. Adiga highlights some of this in his 'The White tiger'. I do not know whether this status thing is so important that people show their status by treating others badly.<BR/>There are too many strands and networks in India and it is difficult to generalize from the bits one has seen. Often changes that come from the top (like gandhi's influence) are complex and even temporary and some changes seem to come without anybody seeing them. In all this what surprise me is some women. we see them as week and needing protection but I have seen many of them courageous, persevering and making difficult choices.<BR/><BR/>These are fairly random and incherent thoughts. May be they will start of the discussion that you desired.gaddeswaruphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16509075029154476375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3112258799568696095.post-48405158586811580602008-11-07T21:25:00.000+05:302008-11-07T21:25:00.000+05:30Gaddeswarup's comment totally warmed my heart :) (...Gaddeswarup's comment totally warmed my heart :) (as did TR's)<BR/><BR/>Oh, and have you guys seen www.change.gov? Terrific idea. Now to see the execution.kmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040339235134145847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3112258799568696095.post-36058462627414655602008-11-07T19:14:00.000+05:302008-11-07T19:14:00.000+05:30i may have underestimated the symbolism in his vic...i may have underestimated the symbolism in his victory. there's a palpable change in the body language of the black students in my classes (undergrad and mba). i might be wrong but they seem to be holding their heads higher and speaking more confidently than before. i hope this lasts.Tabula Rasahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16358094860426062297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3112258799568696095.post-53288077889815691792008-11-07T17:25:00.000+05:302008-11-07T17:25:00.000+05:30He is the son of a wonderful mother. If he shows h...He is the son of a wonderful mother. If he shows half her courage, he will be a great leader.gaddeswaruphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16509075029154476375noreply@blogger.com